Comments for NearWalden http://nearwalden.com/blog One Pond, Many Fish to Fry Sat, 04 Sep 2010 13:39:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 Comment on CSR, Oversimplified by David Douglas http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-5856 David Douglas Sat, 04 Sep 2010 13:39:53 +0000 http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296#comment-5856 <p>I've been thinking about this whole situation more since the article. I suspect that very few people (even those inside companies) understand the extent to which societal expectations and demands on companies have grown. While I'm sure there are aspects of CSR that are proactive, I suspect that most is a response to these expectations and demands. </p> <p>I'm working on another blog post to explore this further.</p> I’ve been thinking about this whole situation more since the article. I suspect that very few people (even those inside companies) understand the extent to which societal expectations and demands on companies have grown. While I’m sure there are aspects of CSR that are proactive, I suspect that most is a response to these expectations and demands.

I’m working on another blog post to explore this further.

]]> Comment on CSR, Oversimplified by Chris P http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-5855 Chris P Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:55:52 +0000 http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296#comment-5855 <p>The Professor Karnani believes that profit maximization for the shareholder should be the objective, but I think he overlooks the concept of that the firm needs to be a going concern. If a company is trading below its book value, then by Professor Karnani's thesis the company would ALWAYS dissolve and give the asset value to the shareholders. I don't think this is happening because the organization (and the management running the business) believes it needs to survive into the future--and part of that future means having relationships with the actors who will be around tomorrow and the next day. CSR is one mechanism that helps remind management that there are characters outside of the organization that they need to care about and not deal with on a simple transactional basis.</p> The Professor Karnani believes that profit maximization for the shareholder should be the objective, but I think he overlooks the concept of that the firm needs to be a going concern. If a company is trading below its book value, then by Professor Karnani’s thesis the company would ALWAYS dissolve and give the asset value to the shareholders. I don’t think this is happening because the organization (and the management running the business) believes it needs to survive into the future–and part of that future means having relationships with the actors who will be around tomorrow and the next day. CSR is one mechanism that helps remind management that there are characters outside of the organization that they need to care about and not deal with on a simple transactional basis.

]]> Comment on CSR, Oversimplified by Dave http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-5848 Dave Wed, 25 Aug 2010 00:17:26 +0000 http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296#comment-5848 <p>Good to "see" you out and about DD. The prof's POV tweaked me due to the over-simplification of the issue and the "or" vs. the "and" for those of us in the real world. </p> <p>But it must be tough to provide commentary on the business world when you've been inside academia for 30+ years :).</p> Good to “see” you out and about DD. The prof’s POV tweaked me due to the over-simplification of the issue and the “or” vs. the “and” for those of us in the real world.

But it must be tough to provide commentary on the business world when you’ve been inside academia for 30+ years :).

]]> Comment on CSR, Oversimplified by dd http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-5847 dd Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:47:49 +0000 http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296#comment-5847 <p>Response to Gareth:</p> <ol> <li><p>I have had similar experiences with large customers . However, I don't think that either of us missed them in our discussions. When winning and losing customers is involved it is exactly the kind of ROI analysis that companies are good at and routinely do. When customers make requests (be they CSR or other), companies do a quick ROI analysis and decide whether to meet the request or not. In this case it happens to be a win-win, but Dr. Karnani would argue that they should have done it anyway, just because it made financial sense.</p></li> <li><p>Re: Greenpeace, I think we both covered that the area of NGOs/advocates/watchdogs well. Dr. Karnani argued that groups like this may be a more effective way to get social change at companies. Obviously the change doesn't occur unless the company feels that their business is threatened in some way. I argued that this is why you need CSR professionals - these are not one off situations, and you need someone analyzing the constant stream of output from these groups and helping to integrate it into the corporate decision process.</p></li> <li><p>Re: employees, you are right that we both left it out. I won't speak for Dr. Karnani, but in my case I thought about it and left it out consciously. I 100% agree that employees want to work for a company that they perceive to be "good", and that it is possible to put a numerical ROI on this. On the other hand, I believe this is more about general perception by employees, and doesn't relate to specific decisions within a company. As a result, in my experience, while everyone will acknowledge the connection, it almost never influences a real decision.</p></li> </ol> Response to Gareth:

  1. I have had similar experiences with large customers . However, I don’t think that either of us missed them in our discussions. When winning and losing customers is involved it is exactly the kind of ROI analysis that companies are good at and routinely do. When customers make requests (be they CSR or other), companies do a quick ROI analysis and decide whether to meet the request or not. In this case it happens to be a win-win, but Dr. Karnani would argue that they should have done it anyway, just because it made financial sense.

  2. Re: Greenpeace, I think we both covered that the area of NGOs/advocates/watchdogs well. Dr. Karnani argued that groups like this may be a more effective way to get social change at companies. Obviously the change doesn’t occur unless the company feels that their business is threatened in some way. I argued that this is why you need CSR professionals – these are not one off situations, and you need someone analyzing the constant stream of output from these groups and helping to integrate it into the corporate decision process.

  3. Re: employees, you are right that we both left it out. I won’t speak for Dr. Karnani, but in my case I thought about it and left it out consciously. I 100% agree that employees want to work for a company that they perceive to be “good”, and that it is possible to put a numerical ROI on this. On the other hand, I believe this is more about general perception by employees, and doesn’t relate to specific decisions within a company. As a result, in my experience, while everyone will acknowledge the connection, it almost never influences a real decision.

]]> Comment on CSR, Oversimplified by Marcy http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-5845 Marcy Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:47:38 +0000 http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296#comment-5845 <p>Nice response Dave. These old Milton Friedman-esque arguments are tired and worn out. And to make such an argument in a year when we've seen massive Toyota recalls, the BP gulf spill, the ridiculousness of Wall Street, etc....it's frankly so out of touch, you have to wonder why the article was even written or published.</p> Nice response Dave. These old Milton Friedman-esque arguments are tired and worn out. And to make such an argument in a year when we’ve seen massive Toyota recalls, the BP gulf spill, the ridiculousness of Wall Street, etc….it’s frankly so out of touch, you have to wonder why the article was even written or published.

]]> Comment on CSR, Oversimplified by Gareth Kane http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-5844 Gareth Kane Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:06:53 +0000 http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296#comment-5844 <p>Good response, but I think you and the good Prof miss two vital points about CSR/sustainability:</p> <ol> <li><p>Customers. Any company is part of the carbon/ecological footprint of their customers whether that is the consumer, the public sector or the private sector. Companies I know have won and lost 7 figure contracts where they credit sustainability as a key factor in the final decision. Watch how Steve Jobs jumped when Greenpeace threatened to upset Apple's hip image out of the water a couple of years ago. The threat to winning new business or the brand blows a simple direct financial ROI out of the water.</p></li> <li><p>Employees. People prefer to work for cool companies over the faceless money making machines lauded by the Prof. In a knowledge based economy in particular you need to recruit and retain the best.</p></li> </ol> <p>I explain this in a little more detail in this YouTube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBqnXNQywvs</p> Good response, but I think you and the good Prof miss two vital points about CSR/sustainability:

  1. Customers. Any company is part of the carbon/ecological footprint of their customers whether that is the consumer, the public sector or the private sector. Companies I know have won and lost 7 figure contracts where they credit sustainability as a key factor in the final decision. Watch how Steve Jobs jumped when Greenpeace threatened to upset Apple’s hip image out of the water a couple of years ago. The threat to winning new business or the brand blows a simple direct financial ROI out of the water.

  2. Employees. People prefer to work for cool companies over the faceless money making machines lauded by the Prof. In a knowledge based economy in particular you need to recruit and retain the best.

I explain this in a little more detail in this YouTube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBqnXNQywvs

]]> Comment on CSR, Oversimplified by Scott http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-5843 Scott Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:05:22 +0000 http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296#comment-5843 <p>Nice rebuttal Dave. Karnani’s piece came across like Wired's declaration that The Web is Dead : in the world of an iPhone app developer, the Web might appear to be nearing its demise. In the world of an MBA professor, constrained by a textbook definition of governance, and the primacy of government regulation, there's little room for the creative process that is the hallmark of value-generating CSR.</p> Nice rebuttal Dave. Karnani’s piece came across like Wired’s declaration that The Web is Dead : in the world of an iPhone app developer, the Web might appear to be nearing its demise. In the world of an MBA professor, constrained by a textbook definition of governance, and the primacy of government regulation, there’s little room for the creative process that is the hallmark of value-generating CSR.

]]> Comment on CSR, Oversimplified by KoAnn Vikoren Skrzyniarz http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-5842 KoAnn Vikoren Skrzyniarz Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:28:45 +0000 http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296#comment-5842 <p>Dave! So glad Adam Werbach pointed me to your post (and you!) What are you up to these days? Thanks for taking the time to respond to the WSJ post. Its hard for me to believe there are still people in academia that don't get the possibility of both/and. I'd thought that obvious, but found it so resonant when we made it the theme of the Sustainable Brands Conference last year, and now I'm on a stump to press the issue. Anyway, great to 'see' you, and would love to catch up. I'm (still) koann@sustainablelifemedia.com</p> Dave! So glad Adam Werbach pointed me to your post (and you!) What are you up to these days? Thanks for taking the time to respond to the WSJ post. Its hard for me to believe there are still people in academia that don’t get the possibility of both/and. I’d thought that obvious, but found it so resonant when we made it the theme of the Sustainable Brands Conference last year, and now I’m on a stump to press the issue. Anyway, great to ‘see’ you, and would love to catch up. I’m (still) koann@sustainablelifemedia.com

]]> Comment on CSR, Oversimplified by Ryan http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-5841 Ryan Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:03:03 +0000 http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296#comment-5841 <p>Nice reply Dave - Thank you so much!</p> Nice reply Dave – Thank you so much!

]]> Comment on CSR, Oversimplified by Erick Mott http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-5839 Erick Mott Tue, 24 Aug 2010 02:46:47 +0000 http://nearwalden.com/blog/?p=1296#comment-5839 <p>Thought provoking, David. Thanks for sharing.</p> Thought provoking, David. Thanks for sharing.

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